Selfrealization and enlightenment is love-bliss

(2006)

Question: You wrote how you initially experienced emptiness in everything. Do you still experience this and could you elaborate a bit on that experience?

Jan: Initially i saw the Self as a so called no-thing-ness, as emptiness. Today I almost regret using that expression, because it is total fullness. Shortly after I got it, I sat at an informal meeting and looked at all these people talking and interacting, and I saw absolute nothingness. I was amazed. I kept wondering how pure nothing could talk, act, think, and so forth. Or you could say I saw people acting and was amazed how they could do so when in reality they were pure nothing. How does nothing become something? I have no idea! It amazed me and I wondered about it every day. Today i see it as the throb of Shakti.

Q: So you still see this nothingness in everything?

J: Yes. All the time. But now I see it as the divine love-bliss of vibrating Shakti.

Q: So you see it in yourself also?

J: I don't see it in me, I am that nothingness-love-bliss, to be sure. So are you! And yes, as I just said, I see it as Shakti manifesting.

Q: What about emotions, thoughts and ideas? I create my own thoughts and ideas.

J: Thoughts and emotions come and go automatically. You don't create the thought. The thought happens in a mind that you happen to be associated with right now. The same is true for everybody though most don't see it because they identify with the mind. As with everything else in creation, emotions and thoughts are just phenomena in space and time, they have nothing to do with you. It's like the cells of the body: every minute cells are created and cells are discarded, but you are not the creator or the owner of them. Likewise thoughts are the cells of the mind: they come and go in accordance with the nature of the mind and its interaction with the surroundings. This is just the way things are. ... I can see this idea that your thoughts are neither you nor yours somehow disturbs you.

Q: Of course it is disturbing. We are used to considering ourselves as our thoughts and feelings. And to claim authorship and ownership to our thoughts.

J: Try this for a moment: pay attention to your thoughts and see how they arise automatically ... Relax ... Now mentally begin slowly counting. One ... two ... three ... Count slower ... Now while you continue counting, put your entire attention on the silence between two numbers ... That's close to the nothing I am talking about. It is who you really are. You are not your thoughts, nor the thinking. Thoughts arise automatically, so you are not the author of them.

Q: I experience nothing between the counting. It is not beingness or anything special. It's just, well nothing.

J: Exactly. Be that nothing ... Try it now.

Q: As I do that, the nothing does change its quality, it does get a feeling of beingness. It feels both very peaceful and very pleasant.

J: Yes. As the experience gets deeper, you will find it is what is really real, and that the thinking is really unreal. But for now be content with the peace. Be aware that since you are totally identified with the mind, this no-thing-ness may sometimes be scary to the mind. But with time it will reveal itself as joy or bliss. Of course this simple practice of counting is only an illustration of the fact that you continue to exist even when there are no thoughts and that you and your thoughts are separate. The basic idea if this illustration is to show you that there is pure awareness that is prior to anything it can be aware of. It is important to get this awareness to become self-aware.

Q: You said you initially saw it as nothingness, but that it has changed. In what way has it changed?

J: The experience has deepened, or changed, since my initial write-up. It's far from just nothingness anymore. It is still no-thing, of course, but not only do I experience it manifesting as love-bliss, I also experience it as a throbbing pulse in beingness, that's Shakti. There are no more periods of just plain no-thing-ness. Usually the whole body is burning with bliss.

Q: Don't you loose your grounding when this happens? I mean, when I get ecstatic, I am not grounded anymore.

J: No, it does not destroy grounding. It is such a physical thing, love-bliss. It is something that transcends and also merges with matter, so you move into presence, not out of it. You should understand that I am not talking about ecstasy at all. Ecstasy is an exalted, restless state. Love-bliss is peaceful, despite it being of such tremendous energy.

Q: So nothingness is not nothing, it is bliss and energy?

J: Yes, exactly, but that comes later or it comes in glimpses. To have it permanently you first need to get anchored in the nothingness of the Self. It is not possible any other way, because that would only generate a disturbed ecstasy. Glimpses of bliss before Self-realization give rise to excitement in the mind and ecstatic joy. After Self-realization, when bliss comes, it comes with great peace and a still, unmoving throbbing feeling of supreme love-energy in your being.

Q: Can be unhappy and blissful at the same time? Isn't bliss happiness?

J: Bliss is not happiness. Happiness is a state of mind, bliss is the nature of the Self. Of course, when bliss is there, it is difficult to be unhappy. Yet it is my experience that you can be in a state of bliss at the same time as the mind is frustrated by some circumstance in life. That's just how the mind works, and this frustration is unhappiness in any person, whether he is Self-realized or not. But continuously you are not the frustration, you are nothingness-beingness-love-bliss witnessing it all without getting entangled in any of it. As time goes on, bliss becomes more and more permanent, and this process is very rapid.

Q: In the name of enlightenment, many seekers go to workshops to get a happy mind. What do you think of that?

J: As far as getting Self-realized it is a waste of time. Therapy, or any kind of working on the mind or psyche, can be nice, but it will not bring you one bit closer to Self-realization.

Q: Why not?

J: I think I have just explained that. In short: You are not the mind. Whether the mind is fucked up or clear and happy makes absolutely no difference to your potential for getting Self-realized In fact those with a happy mind probably often have a harder time getting Self-realized than those with an unhappy one. The reason for this is that the unhappy ones want to get out of the mind, the happy ones want to stay identified with it.

Q: How can we get closer, then?

J: Find a master who can give it to you. Get your kundalini awakened and work with it. That's how I reached it, so that's what I recommend.

Q Many new age teachers tell you to stay away from kundalini. And to support their view, they tell you scary stories. You seem to disagree?

J: Kundalini is entirely benign; kundalini is Shakti and Shakti is of course the divine energy of love-bliss. Shakti is the love of my life. Like any love affair, there are ups and down, but don't dismiss the benefits on account of a few problems. Kundalini is the source of all enlightenment and all bliss. Without kundalini, there can be no true bliss, no true enlightenment. Self-realization as pure no-thing-ness, without any love-bliss, is possible without an awakened kundalini, but if you want to go beyond that and get the love-bliss, you need to awaken kundalini.

Q. How do you experience kundalini?

J: As immense bliss filling every pore of the body, it is divine beyond description. In everyday life kundalini simply manifests uncaused joy in me; since Self-realization this has been fairly permanent. Before that it was only occasional. To begin with, the immense bliss was occasional, but now it is permanent.

Q: You say the other thing to do is to find a master, that can give it to you. I have heard you can awaken kundalini in others. This is called shaktipat, I believe.

J: Yes. I have awakened others kundalini many times. But I can't decide if this or that person should have it. I sense if someone is ready to receive it or not, and then I might pass it on. If you want to get in contact with a master, who gives it, then get in contact with Anandi Ma at www.dyc.org.

Q: How would you recommend we meditate in order to integrate all this?

J: I can tell you a basic meditation for awakening kundalini and open the doors for bliss. Sit comfortably and follow your breath. Then as you breathe in, remember the word "Shakti". As you breathe out, remember the word "Om". Then as you breathe in imagine you are drawing energy up the spine. As you breathe out imagine the scull expanding as energy and a radiance from the top of the head. Do this for at least half an hour twice daily and you will soon experience bliss. The stronger you can feel drawing up energy, and the effulgence at the top of the head, the better. Please check out the more detailed instructions on the meditation page.